CONVERSION IS SIN: Is the Bhai 'Attacking' Hinduism or Arun Dorasamy?

Is the Bhai 'Attacking' Hinduism or Arun Dorasamy?

I see the bhai attacking Hinduism in the Pretext of Defending Islam by using Arun Dorasamy's name/video.

I don't know the bhai’s name but I saw a video of him on FB under the name of Artprochef Pro on 9 February 2022, in the video he questioned Arun about his ‘miswords on Islam’. I got no issue if it is a personal issue between Arun and the Bhai or Islam, but the bhai deviated unnecessarily into Hinduism and attacked Hinduism with some Karuppar Kootam of EV Ramasamy’s anti-Hindu views. (I wonder if one needs to study Islam, he/she should/needs to refer anti-Islam version views as you are and not an authentic version of scripture). Why did the bhai never refer to authentic Hindu text and its interpretations?

Dear Bhai,

If one makes a mistake, another does the same mistake again in the pretext of defending his faith. It is mere stupidity. So what is the difference between both of them? Bhai, You as a Muslim, you got all the rights to defend your religion, but it is NOT a license to misinform, mislead or demean Hinduism with the anti-Hindu views.

You said Arun used the wrong words, if so you have all rights to ask questions. Yes, I fully agree with this and you should take necessary actions accordingly but why are you interfering and lying about Hinduism? Who are you to talk to about Hinduism?

Your statement, “If I ask questions as a Tamilan, it will affect the entire Hinduism”. Wow! And you asked! Bhai, if you talk about Tamilan alone I have no issue but since you transgressed and interfered with Hinduism I had to answer you. How will it affect entire Hinduism? Bhai, Hinduism survived thousands of years without any preaching, proselytizing, converting, or even apostatizing anyone. Went through thousands of years of invasion, plunder, persecution, genocide, atrocity, etc by the religious invaders, yet there are 1.3 billion Hindus around the world because there is dharma/truth in it (Sanatana Dharma Satyame Bhava). I am obliged to defend here because you are literally ‘threatening’ my Hindu faith.

From your video, You raised quite a number of questions but unfortunately, your questions are exactly of the atheist or Crypto Saivites/ the so-called Tamil Samayam followers, some pretending Hindus (but actually converted out) and Karuppar kootham (EV Ramasamy atheist stooges) of Tamil Nadu’s version. And I am responsible to answer your questions as they are lies, slander, and misleading and showing your intention to demean Hinduism compared to your faith in the pretext of defending your faith.

Your Questions. (I wonder why every anti-Hindu stooges want to ask the same questions?)

1. “Can I go into mulastanam? One who does a statue, after that he cannot touch it (tithu)?”

Mulasthanam./Sanctum of Main Temple Deity

Dear bhai, first of all, why does anyone need to go to mulasthanam? No Hindus demands in entering Mulasthanam. In Hinduism, no one can go into Mulasthanam after the prana prathista of the statue, (one day before prana pratistha, everyone can enter and touch the Statue for oil ceremony). After prana pratistha not even you, me, or a Brahmin except the appointed acharya is permitted to enter. Before the prana pratistha it is just a statue or a stone before being carved. I wonder! If you build a house with a contractor’s help, do you need the contractor to be allowed into your bedroom after completing and handing over the house? Even those who carved the statues also follow strict religious precaution rules. Are you aware that non-Muslims are not allowed /cannot enter Mecca/ Kaabah? Do you think why? Sure there is a right explanation as per your faith.

Tithu./ become Impure

You are confused with the word tithu. We Hindus practice tindamai/untouchability and tithu/infection/impurity during birth maximum 30 days, death max 30 days, menstruation (woman) 3 days, we don’t go to temples or involved in any religious activities (except pray), etc. So, one who is dealing with the deity in the temple must preserve/ well check the acharam/ agamic prescribed rules by himself very carefully. In Islam for example, a woman’s prayer will be null/rejected if/during menstruation (‘batal sembahyang kalau hadas), so similarly, we Hindus practiced it on a more precautionary scale in a much wider range. Remember Covid 19 made entire world populations become untouchable to each other.

Certain communities/people within Hinduism, who are fully involved in funeral services won't enter the temple because they know the basic importance of preventing any disease from spreading. They knew their observance. You know who is making noise, only those who have agendas.

2.”In India, they force people to drink cow urine, and force people to tell ‘Jai Sri Ram’, the hijab problem. etc.”

Bhai, These are Indian of India issues, so please ask the Indian Government. Definitely, no Hindus support these things because Hindus don’t convert people. It is another political game. So, please don’t bring it into Malaysia.

3. “Tamil Kadavul, it is Tamil temple but you recite a nonunderstandable language (Sanskrit), if I ask, you say that is Deiva bhasa, isn’t that selfish? Aren’t you forcing/infusing Hinduism to Tamils?”

Tamil Kadavul.

Bhai, Kadavul/ God does not have a race. No such thing as Tamil Kadavul or Malayali God or Telugu God or Malay God. People fondly can claim or say as one because of bhakti. God/Kadavul is one. Paramporul Murugan, fondly referred to as Tamil Kadavul among Tamils, Murugan (representations of Trimurthis) is Skanda throughout the world, among the first temples of Skanda in the Himalaya range. He is also called Subrahmanya, Kartikeya, and many other names. Please don’t confuse yourself with the crypto Hindu version stories. I wonder if you are believing Tamil Kadavul but your faith replicating Arabic…. Aren't this against your akidah as a Muslim?

Tamil Temple.

Tamils in Tamil Nadu built temples, but Telugus built in Andhra Pradesh, Malayalis built in Kerala, and many northern ethnics built in the north, Javanese built in Jawa, and many throughout the world, etc. Nowhere else is the question of whose temples arises except in TN, do you know why? It is just a political game and religious agenda by certain groups. Bhai, in Tamil Nadu the Tamils also built mosques right, in Malaysia Malays also build mosques. Do any Malay claims it is as Malay’s mosque or any Tamils claim as Tamil mosque? Please don’t be blinded yourself with the karuppar kootam's agenda.

Sanskrit.

Temples were built based on agamic rules, so the mantras are in Sanskrit. Mantras are in sound form, sound is not able to be translated into another language. Sivaperuman gave the sound mantra in his Maheswara Sutrani, Agama Scriptures, and Vedas in Sanskrit, so who are you to question this? From Thirumurai, Saiva Siddhantam, Sangam Literatures all praised Sanskrit and among 63 Nayanmars, no one rejected Sanskrit except the karuppar kootam stooges.

If you are not able to understand a language, then please learn it. You yourself why use a foreign language in your prayers yet you are questioning others which is none of your business at all.

It is called Devabhasa because it is given by Sivaperuman Himself, it is used in temples all over the world, no matter what is the mother tongue of the nation. It is a standard agamic rule prescribed by Sivaperuman Himself. Some Tamils like the karuppar kootam never read any scriptures yet blabbering with their own agenda. You don’t blabber together. Every Hindu temple throughout the world uses the Sanskrit mantras, Vedas, etc. Nowhere else is the question of the use of Sanskrit in temples arises except in TN, do you know why?

Bhai, in Tamil Nadu the Tamils also built mosques right, then why do you think they recite a prayer in a nonunderstandable language (Arab)? You don’t know or pretend don't know? Do you question that also? But I knew it is part of your faith.

Forcing Hinduism on Tamils?

Bhai, Tamils were Hindus for thousands of years but did not use the term Hindu because it is a newly coined and popularized term that represents the Aru Samayam. They were the followers of aru samayam/ Shanmatham (Saivites, Saktas, Vaishnavas, Sauras, Kaumaras, and Ganapathyas) mentioned in Thirumurai and Sangam Literatures. No one is forcing Tamils except the propaganda played by the anti-Hindus in TN to divert Tamils from Hinduism. Even Kavinyar Kanadasan said once, “if a Tamilan claims that he is not a Hindu, then he is a madman” (oru Tamilan, avan Hindu illene sonna, avan paitiakaran). For you to recall your forgotten History, not only in Tamil Nadu, entire Bharat/India including South East Asia were Hindus, your ancestors, mine, people of SEA all were Hindus.

4. “First respect human as human, there is no higher or lower…Jati, talk about Manitha Neiyam, eat together, here (Islam) you can find Manithaneyam your place (Hinduism) don't have. If asked, … they are lower jati, one born in the leg…you also breathe the same air, your air, water different ah…”

Jati, Varna, and Caste.

Hindu Scripture says only one jati. (those born in the same method are the same jati) but later humans created more jati based terms to identify/differentiate each other. Most of the time Varna is equated with jati and caste, which is totally wrong and misleading. Varna is not by birth but gunas ( education, job and attitude) and Karmas ( actions and pietyness) while jati is later associated with the job one is doing because of a job inherited from generation after the education system was destroyed by the foreign invaders.

While caste is a Christian Missionary (Portuguese) coined word to differentiate people based on birth. The western missionary Indologists assumed varna as caste and manipulated it and created a hierarchical narrative so that it was easy to convert Hindus. Did you know among the 63 Nayanmars there are Brahmins to Sudras, Valmiki (Ramayana author) is hunter, Vyasa (Veda compiler) is a son of a fisherwoman and many other rishis are mixed from all varnas? Hinduism embraces everyone, bhai.

Manithaneyam./ Humanity

Humanity only existed in Islam, not Hinduism? Are you sure? Do you really know how your faith describes the nonbelievers? In Hinduism, everyone is called His child and everyone is eligible to attain Moksha and we see God in everyone. All humans are equal at atmic level because the same Brahman resides in everyone. If the same Brahman is in everyone, then definitely no one is higher or lower than another human and cannot place them in a hierarchical order. If someone practiced/emphasized hierarchy among humans, he accumulated his own karma. Bhai, when we Hindus say Vanakam, Namaskar, Namaste, etc., actually we are acknowledging the Kadavul/God in the person we addresses.

Serving humans is one of five compulsory duties of a Hindu. Thiruvalluvar himself mentioned virunthu ombal/ athithi deva bhavo in his Thirukural and also mentioned in Manusmriti and Bhagavad Gita. Serve your guests as though they are God Himself. In another phrase "Makkal sevai Mahesan Sevai"/ Service to mankind is service to God.

Eat together? Bhai eating together will not prove any manithaneyam. Hindus practice these differences not because to degrade one as low or higher. It is one of the reasons for preventing the disease from spreading among people beside religious observation. Now, Covid 19 made you untouchable, there is law enforcement to make sure you don’t touch another person. Do you think this is an oppression of manithaneyam?

In Hinduism even if one converts out, we don’t force him to return or punish the person because it is his personal choice and accumulate bad karma for himself. According to Hinduism, conversion is sin and both the convert and the conversion agent will add up bad karma and miss out on the opportunity to reach Moksha in this very birth. But in your religion, if one converts out of your faith, it is a punishable crime, please check your self bhai. In the event, one murtad propagates the newly professed religion he can be executed, please check with Zakir Naik. I wonder if you really understand the meaning of manithaneyam. (Manithaneyam or religious obligation?)

5. “Who wrote Thirukural? Tamilan, you all put on a kavi dress, convert him to Hindu?”

Bhai, Thirukural was written by Thiruvalluvar, who is a Tamilan, no issue. But you said he was converted into Hinduism! Oh My God, You sound exactly the Karuppar koottam of anti-Hinduism. Please don’t buy the lies of the anti-Hindu groups since the 1930s in Tamil Nadu and missionaries since the 1800s. Do you know there are claim by missionaries in TN that Thiruvalluvar is a Christian? Luckily you don't buy this yet.

We got a lot of evidence that Thiruvalluvar is a Hindu. He was a Hindu. Hinduism never converts anyone. The karuppar kootam creates all kinds of destruction against Hinduism. Are you an agent of karuppar kootam?

Contents of Thirukural.

In Thirukural, Thiruvalluvar mentioned Bhagawan (Sanskrit word for Kadavul) and many Hindu deities, Purusharthas ( Dharma/Aram, artha/Porul, Kama/Inbam and Moksha/Veedu), Varnasrama, Ashrama Dharma, Pancha Mahayagna and many Hindu evidence. There are similar verses taken/copied from Manusmriti and Bhagavad Gita.

Statue of Thiruvalluvar.

A statue of Thiruvalluvar belonging to the 14 or 15 century shows he wears punul ( mupurinul), rudraksha beads, kavi dress etc. There are many other pieces of evidence.

Compare Arun Dorasamy’s view with Many Muslim Preachers.

I am not defending Arun, if he is wrong, he is punishable accordingly. In his video, Arun is advising the Hindus as how the many Muslim preachers advised their fellow Muslims (the list below as reference).

What did Arun say and why did he use such a phrase?

First of all, he never mentioned any particular religion. And no single word did he mention on Islam or Mualaf.

He advised Hindus about converting out, saying if one wants to convert, one must have a true belief in the particular new faith, thus he is never against conversion.

He said if one converts because of silly reasons such as for a girl/boy, money, power, etc, and not bhakti/faith is equivalent to prostitution because you will lose your dignity. He advises those who want to convert, to do it with full faith/ Bhakti. He never said all the conversions are prostitution. So, what is wrong with his view/video? Anyway, this view is not new. The Hindu Sant, Swami Vivekananda has a similar view, he thinks conversion is equivalent to perversion (distortion or corruption of the original course, meaning, unacceptable, abnormal).

Triggered, Threatening, and Instigating?

Why the bhai thinks it is about Islam? Does Islam approve unethical conversion such as he mentioned? I'm very sure the Islamic faith will never accept such conversions. So, why is the bhai triggered so much?

He also mentioned that 'soon somebody is going to hold Arun by his collar'. Is he threatening or is he trying to instigate others to do so? If anything happens, who is responsible here?

What did Many Muslim Preachers say earlier?

Compared to Arun, the many Muslim preachers had used the worst words against Hinduism openly in the pretext of advising Muslims based on their scriptures. Why does the bhai never take the right steps to stop them when these Muslims insult and demean Hinduism? Aren’t these not considered as insulting?

What these so-called preachers said (a pinch of what they said)

1. Zakir …. Hindus deviated from Vedas, etc.

2. Firdaus Wong….. Hindus deviated from Vedas, Trisula Siva equated as Satan's spear, etc.

3. Ahmad Iqram… Rama eats beef according to Ramayana, etc.

4. Zamri Vinoth...Hindus pray stone, Sivalingam is penis, etc.

5. Abdul Halim Abdullah… Temples are worst than Prostitution nests.

6. Idris Sulaiman... Temple is the house of Satan.

7. Syakir Nasuha…. Kafirs/Hindus, etc want to kill Muslims.

8. Shah Kirit….ehm, ehm…etc

9. Hidayat….Satan climbing. ( only convicted case)

10. Dr. Maza…praying cow.

The list goes on.

Can anyone insult and demean Hinduism worse than them? They already breached all the levels. Or what is the exact definition for insult and demean as per your faith if the above preachers are considered not insulting? Do you wonder if no Hindus ever reported to the authorities? Bhai, can you please check if any report was made against these preachers or not? There are thousands of reports. Is any of the issues listed above can be less insulting than Arun's view/video?

I noticed, most of these preachers defend/claim (when reported), that they were talking based on their scriptures, or their messages were taken out of context or they were talking in closed doors but someone else leaked it into public. So, they claim they are not wrong. My question here is, Can a non-Muslim talk about your faith/Islam based on their own scriptures openly? Can a non-Muslim emulate their methods when speaking about other religions? Bhai, every scripture from different religions have their own version of narratives about nonbelievers of the particular religion/scripture. Do you think you/ Muslims will be happy and justify if everyone starts to describe openly in the public?

Debate Challenge.

You mentioned debate. Are you sure you want to debate? It is a silly call for debate. In Malaysia, the authority will not approve any debate between different religions especially involving Islam. Even if it is approved, it will be like organizing a boxing match with one opponent’s hand tied up. Do you think it will be a fair game? Because when we do comparative religion, we need to see all perspectives. Can you arrange all the necessary arrangements and approvals (untie) from the relevant authorities? I am ready. Will you?

Conclusion.

The Islamic scripture clearly said, "do not insult another’s faith…, your religion is yours, my religion is for me…, humans made into many tribes…to know each other…, etc".

What is a MUKMIN's obligation here who are following the scripture? Why no mukmin is able to solve the case of Indira Ghandi?

Once again, you got all the right to defend your faith, but you do not have the right to interfere in Hinduism. If Arun did wrong, please do accordingly, not blabbering about Hinduism. And please refer to Hindu authentic text not the karuppar kootam version.

Once again, I am not talking about Tamils. I am talking about Hinduism.

Hinduism sees Manithaneyam/Humanity and Religious Obligation as same.

Makkal Sevai Mahesan Sevai

Om Namasivaya.

Sivasiddhi.

Sivasiddhi Spiritual Foundation

11 February 2022

Latest Update.

12/02/2022 - 2.45pm

I spoke with the Bhai just now. His name is Mohd Faisal, Presiden of Pertubuhan Muslim Global.

He claims Arun had said all the converted person as dasi, so that he cannot accept that, because of that he spoke about Hinduism because Arun pulled Islam. I said to him that, I saw the video, Arun said that one must convert with pure faith and don't convert for something because it is equivalent to prostitution.

Bhai said, according Islam, one cannot convert for other than faith, if one convert because of something is dosa/sin.

I told him, what you are saying and Arun said are the same thing/opinion only difference is both of you used different words, you said DOSA, he said DASI. If you think Arun had said all converts as dasi, give me the video for your claim, maybe I saw a wrong video, please report and take action, but he said he prefer settle it peacefully.

Bhai also said if his words on Hinduism hurts anyone, please forgive/ and willing to apologize openly.

Bhai expect this issue to be settle in good way.

The Bhai expect, If can, talk to Arun and advise him to keep up his work but not use such words or meet up.

I told him, will talk to Arun. Bhai said he will remove all these videos.

Will update further....

13/02/2022 - I spoke to Arun on 12/02/2022 night , he said he got no issue. The Bhai started and now he deleted the video and want let got the issue in peaceful way. So, I got no problem let it be. In case he got any other thing he may call me.

Will update further....

14/02/2022 - I spoke to Mr. Mohd Faisal /Bhai , he do not wants to prolong this issue at this point as he told earlier. Assumed that this issue is settled and both party agrees to no further action. I passed Arun's phone number (with the permission from Arun) in case Bhai wants any further info, etc.

Will update further if any... Om Namasivaya

My contacts. sivasiddhi1082@gmail.com or 01123508108. Please do not hesitate to contact me. Vanakam Bhai.

Reference.

1.Hukuman bunuh kepada Murthad

https://harakahdaily.net/index.php/2021/02/08/murtad-dihukum-bunuh-selepas-enggan-taubat/

2.No Caste in Hinduism. Varna, Caste and Jati : The Truth That Misappropriated.

(English Version)

http://sivasiddhi1082.blogspot.com/2018/08/varna-caste-and-jati-truth-that.html?m=1

3.Untouchability in Hinduism.

http://sivasiddhi.blogspot.com/2021/08/untouchability-in-hinduism.html

4.Arun Dorasami, unethical Conversion is...Prostitution...

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSetrU5P5/